Quoting Charlotte Whitton on women
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult.
-Charlotte Whitton
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December 7th, 2005 at 10:28 am
is that better for WOMEN or for MEN???
I didnt get it…. sorry…
December 7th, 2005 at 10:40 am
I do not think the word “better” is valid here. Whitton, in my estimation, says that women need to work harder than men for people to aknowledge their feats.
She then says this is not difficult, possibly because men are not as good,or for some other reason that I do not know of. It is open for debate, Black Cats.
December 7th, 2005 at 10:52 am
Well, I think there is no need to work twice as men to be aknowledged…
And I think there is a jobs for women and jobs for men… if you are a woman and working in a MEN job, you need to work harder. If you are a man and working in WOMEN job, you need to work harder…
BOTH, WOMEN AND MEN ARE GOOD IN THEIR JOBS….
December 7th, 2005 at 11:53 am
ive discovered something in my experiences.
men tend to be intelligent however they lack determination and resolve but compensate with rationale.
women tend to be intelligent with double the determination of men, though are so emotional that it clouds all rationale.
hence they even out in the end but with a different quantity of the elements and substances involved in this chemical reaction
this is why men and women are not made to do every job equally
just my 2 cents
December 7th, 2005 at 2:08 pm
hi,
i think women or men can do both the same effort , but whats needed more the well to do the thing.
this is from my experience.
December 7th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
overgeneralization is generally pathetic! (o n i c the irony)
December 7th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
Interesting!
December 7th, 2005 at 6:35 pm
Women do good job when the feel like it,men do bad job most of the time.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
Nice to see you among us, Abdelstar Alslimat. Welcome to Tololy’s Box. I like what you said, it makes me smile.
December 7th, 2005 at 7:05 pm
In Islam, the boy inherits twice as much as the girl, also in court you need the testimony of two women to equal that of one man.
December 7th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
Hatem,
What does that have to do with anything?
What you have stated on what Islam has stated is by no means an indicator of anything of relevance to this topic.
December 8th, 2005 at 12:36 am
Well Sabri, you think it doesn’t but I think it does, otherwise why would I bother posting it. Any way : To each its own, I respect your opinion and I hope that you respect mine.
December 8th, 2005 at 6:22 am
I think what Islam has decreed concerning women quite unmatched in any other religion. Some might agree with this, and many might dismiss the notion as absurd. What positions other people take are absolutely their own.
Far from being a religious authority, or even a perfect representative of the line of faith, I think the reason why a man inherits twice the share of the woman is due to the fact that, in Islam, it is up to the man to maintain the household financially. It is his duty to support his mother, unmarried sisters, aunts and grandmothers who do not have a supporter, and a wife and children. This lays on him several musts that he has to answer to in front of God and His people.
Possibly that comes through to some feminists as totally prejudiced, and discriminative against women and their abilities to financially sustain themselves. But we need only reflect on the fact that Islam does not prohibit women from earning money, there is many an example of successful Muslim businesswomen, be that in the past or the present. I think the best right handed to women in Islam is actually not having to support a family, a woman is entitled to her own money and it is up to her to spend it on what ever she desires. She is not expected to spend it on anyone else, unless she chooses to. Now I personally see that as the utmost financial liberty given to any woman, but that is my own view and it need not interest you.
In addition to that, I believe a man does not always inherit twice as much as the woman. The words “man” and “woman” are much too general. The distribution of inheritance shares when someone passes away depends on a set of factors, whether the deceased person had children or not, whether it was male or female, the degree of kinship to the people who expect to inherit him or her, and so on and so forth. True, there are cases where the man inherits twice as much the money as a woman, but there are also cases when a woman, in the general sense of the word, gets more than the man, again generally speaking. I think much too emphasis is put on this clich, without meditation, that now it really has lost its spark.
To conclude an unexpectedly lengthy comment, I say, again, that I am not a religious authority. What is said here is of my humble understanding, and it should not be taken as law. If one is curious, one needs to look things up. Do not take anyones word for anything, quite distrustful, eh?
December 8th, 2005 at 7:33 am
Thats because until now the world is seen through the eyes of men. Women should blame no one but themselves, we either be satisfied walking in parallel paths and save ourselves the trouble or if we must, take it more seriously, make the necessary efforts instead of whining, and be among the judges.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:41 am
There were some comments here that absolutely horrified me.
Black cats saying that there are some jobs for mena nd some jobs for women?
Need I point out that there is absolutely no scientific data conclusively showing that women are “more emotional”. It is deeply distrubing to see people engaging in such gender stereotyping.
Indeed, Charlotte Witton would also be disturbed by the comments made here
I don’t know how Islam factore into it. Yet, it is undeniable truth that Islamic practice lends to the perpetuation of the oppressive hetro-normative familial contruct. One must not look solely at the discrimnaotry nature of Sharia law. What about the whole heaven is beneath the feet of women, polygamy, archaic conceptc of perserving honour. Why is is that the Man is financially responsible for the household? Why can’t that responsiblity be shared. Furthermore, Women should not be confined to “nurturing” the children. Listening to some Islamists you’d think that if a woman leaves her kids children at home to go out and work they’;; end up rotten. I counter that with the assertion that if fostering a so called healthy and nurturing environement for children is paramount in Islam then how is it that polygamy is not seen as being psychologically unsettling. It is after all an extremely unsettling psychological experience (if needed I will provide references to studies by psychologists)
What I find surprising is that moslems tend to always defend Islam by relating it to other religions. Issues concerning gender based oppression are not theologicall relativist in nature. One cannot discount the fact that at the time of its inception Islam was in fact relatively liberal for its time by granting women some rights were they had none. However, Why didn’t Islam provide equal rights from the start? Didn’t God realize that a little something called Capitalism is going to come along and completely change the agrarian model on which social Islamic principles are built
The fact of the matter is, yes Islam gave women some rights, more than they ahd before, but Islam also actively limited those rights so that they were not equal to that of Man
Khaled
December 8th, 2005 at 7:46 am
One more thing,
by discounting the financial responsiblity of women, Islam is actually limiting her agency, especially within the capitalist mode of production.
By not having to earn money for the family a woman is seen as something on the financial periphery of family economics. She’s entitled to her own money but that money is not needed for the family as it is the male head of the household who si responsible for the making money part.
relations of production dictate social relations, as such value is palced within the context of wage. When a woman’s wages are seen as being unnecessary she is being actively oppressed
Khaled
December 8th, 2005 at 9:45 am
Khaled,
I am almost always positive that you will post a comment whenever religion is concerned.Interesting, your participation boosts my psychic morale.
Our viewpoints crisscoss, but not always in an agreeing manner. I appreciate that, and I respect your opinions. I would like it if you continued to share them, and I beg you to get involved not only in religion-oriented subjects, but in others as well.
To be frank, I did not expect this entry to generate such waves, nor did I see it dilating as it did. Come what may, I hope everyone enjoys a good scratch on the head after reading the entires and the comments in my box.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:42 pm
I had hoped my first comment on tololy’s box would not be related to Islam, but I find myself forced to say a few things. First of all, I believe that it is all about personal choice. You make a choice whether you wish to follow the rules of a certain religion, sect or creed. Once you have made that choice, you are expected to follow through, regardless whether you think that some of these laws don’t conform to your wishes and likes and dislikes.
Second, I am a muslim and I am a female. As far as I am concerned, Islam does provide me with all that I need in my life. I do not feel oppressed, on the contrary, I am very liberated. I work, and I enjoy my work for that matter. I have full control of my finances and I decide whether I want to partake in the household financial arrangements or not. I am married and in my house, I rule. I am a mother and I have the final say in the way my children are raised. All my relatioships with my co-workers, husband, children and all people around me are goverened by Islam. It is the guiding force behind all that I do, and the most beautiful thing is that at the end of the day, all that I have done or will do is between me and my god. There are no complications, I do not need a medium between us.
Thigns are not as complicated as they might seem to some of you, and I do not claim to be an authority on Islam. Islam provides you with a general framework that shows you what is right and what is wrong. it is again your personal choice to follow through or stray. No one can live without order. It is a simple fact, you need order in you work schedule, you need order in you household, you need order in your relationships. Islam provides such order.
It is often claimed that Islam oppresses women,however, no one has bothered to ask muslim women themselves what they think about this whole issue, which is some what strange. Ho can you decide for others if they are oppressed or not?
I honestly did not want to dwell much on this subject, but it really gets to me sometimes …
Anyway. As for the Quote, I have had experiences, quite a few, that make me believe that there is some weight to what the lady has to say.
December 8th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
when Considering Equality consider this:
10 = 10
but also
1 + 4 + 5 = 2 + 8 + 0
December 9th, 2005 at 12:05 pm
Hello anonymous person, and hello Nidal. You are both welcome to share your viewpoints, and I value all the input I get. I hope the entries in the box come to your liking.
February 25th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Tololy, I’d be interested to hear your take about the testimony law in Islam (how one man’s testimony equals two women’s)