Comments on: Semitic is a Language Group, Not a Racial or Ethnic Group

By: Devil's Mind

Devil's Mind — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:19:29 +0000

According to Babylon dictionary:

Anti Semite:- person who is prejudiced against Jews, one who
discriminates against or persecutes Jews

Semite:- member of a group of peoples supposedly descended from the eldest son of Noah
(including the Jews, Arabs, Akkadians, and Phoenicians)

By the way, what a great article! Now the anti-semites have to expand their circle of hatred to include Arabs as well as Jews into their hate circle…. How lovely :-D

By: Craig

Craig — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 04:14:06 +0000

Looks like my previous attempt was caught in the spam filter! I’ll try a simpler one :)

The word "Semite" comes from Shemite (in English)

Shem and Ham were the two sons of Noah.

Shem’s sons were Aram (re: Aramaic language) , Asshur (Assyrians), Elam, and Arpachshad.

Arpachshad founded the kingdom of Ur. He is most significant because of his descendant, Abraham - the progenitor of all three Abrahamic faiths, of course.

Arpachshad is the ancestor of (true) arabs and hebrews. However, all descendents of Shem can and should be considered "semites" - by literal definition, no less. That’s not a linguistic usage. It’s an ethnic usage. Saying the word is only correctly used as to describe language is totally incorrect, because the languages are called "semitic" because semitic people spoke them!

Canaan was one of the sons of Ham, by the way. If one believes the ancients scriptures (as all muslims do) and believes Palestinians are descendants of Canaan, the Palestinians are not Semitic. They are Hamitic.

I’m kind of surprised the politically correct kind of abstraction is making it’s way into the arab world!

By: omar

omar — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:32:29 +0000

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9035 
This article is really interesting,
focuses on how" Anti-Semitism is misused…

omar

By: Rum

Rum — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:11:12 +0000

"Jewish lobby groups are more together in the US and know how to play the system"

So the NRA can be a fair target for attacks from anyone, but no one dares criticise AIPAC, ZOA, or ADL. your use of euphimisims such as "play the system" is insluting to the intellegence of anyone who knows the truth. You are propably familira with the harvad study about the abuses of the jewish lobby. If not, have a link. Even the report was attack in an unfair manner. Fact is, jewish groups operate above the state and are immune.

http://www.alternet.org/audits/34416/?comments=view&cID=104428&pID=103713

even the authors of the report did not escape the nasty tactics of US jewish groups. they have been attacked and Harvard has been pressured. This reminds us of the genetic study conducted by the spanish professor that was also attacked in an unprecedented way. Creeps.

By: tommy

tommy — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:11:12 +0000

Sorry, Tololy. I didn’t notice you were just quoting another article. I should have been more careful.

This guy is a crackpot. Sure enough, reading the rest of the article he mentions Arthur Koestler’s "The Thirteenth Tribe" which propounds the now discredited theory that Ashkhenazic Jews are the descendants of medieval Khazar Turks who converted to Judaism en masse. Modern genetics has demonstrated this theory to be completely bogus. The Khazars were certainly real, but Ashkhenazic Jews are not their descendants. He apparently didn’t trouble himself to investigate what the science actually says about Koestler’s theory. The theory is still kicked around by Arabs and white supremacists as "proof" that Ashkhenazic Jews, half of Israel’s population, have no legitimate right to live in Israel. It often accompanies such related drivel as "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on pro-Palestinian and neo-Nazi sites.

By: Rum

Rum — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 18:23:00 +0000

" I am sure you are) people in the Arab believe this sort of thing"

Look whos talking, the people think every arab and muslim is out to get them so you have to get them first. fact is Israel perfected conspiricay theory. Then the neo-con US took to a new hight where a whole country, Iraq, was destroyed because of the clinical paranoia which say alqaeda and WMD lukrking in every baghdad ally, the outcome was horrific and the casuality list is still mounting. all of it because of some sick conspiricy theory. I think irsael and the US are sick paranoid countries who are a danger to themselvs and others.

By: Tololy

Tololy — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:42:15 +0000

I am not the writer of this article, I merely quoted it. For clarity, I am not interested in the pasage that details the originas of Jews, but to omit it could be considered a error so it remained. It’s simple, really, so let’s stick to the point.

By: tommy

tommy — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 10:38:53 +0000

and now I am dragged to the conclusion that I am trying to "grasp" for some old "hypothesis".

Well then, perhaps you would like to explain what you meant by the Sephardic Jews being the "true Jews." What leads you to the conclusion that they are the "true Jews?" What is that supposed to mean?

By: Dirk

Dirk — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 08:04:03 +0000

Most arab americans who have
been targeted by the FBI have been first targetted by jewish groups
such as ADL, ZOA, AIPAC. 

Wow. The FBI following the lead of the ADL? It’s sad that otherwise intelligent (which, without knowing you Rum, I am sure you are) people in the Arab believe this sort of thing.

No doubt: Jewish lobby groups are more together in the US and know how to play the system - as do a lot of other special interest groups of course.

But maybe the problem with Arab Americans isn’t the power of the "Jews", it’s that they are poorly served by their community leaders. The Muslim community in the US is now more numerous than the Jewish community. So get organised.

Especially since the system of splitting congressional seats into geographical districts favours minorities and lobbying groups who can pick off individual candidates.

Sadly most efforts that I’ve seen coming from the Arab American community are wide off the mark and , to be honest, ill-suited to modern 30 second soundbites: For example a 20 min film I’ve seen doing the rounds on pro-Arab blogs where retired American officials talk about the Palestinians.

By: Tololy

Tololy — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 06:53:27 +0000

It’s funny but I got a comment detailing the modern-day relationship between Jordan and Israel, in an attempt to prove a point (what is that point, only the person who posted the comment knows), and now I am dragged to the conclusion that I am trying to "grasp" for some old "hypothesis". Very interesting.

By: tommy

tommy — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 05:29:51 +0000

Tololy,

The truth is that while Semitic is a language group, anti-semitism was a term coined exclusively to refer to hatred of Jews. You may not like the etymology of the word, and you may think the word is improperly used to label critics of Zionism, but that is its meaning and has been its meaning from the time of the term’s origin. It does not refer to, and has never referred to, hatred of Arabs or Assyrians or any other Semitic-speaking group.

You may also think the word is improperly applied. While I cannot say there aren’t some people out there who are critical of Israel but don’t hate Jews, the number of times somebody who claims to be simply an anti-Zionist turns out to be a true antisemite, is quite remarkable.

The actual genetic Jews were born in the Middle East and are known as Sephardic Jews.

Entirely incorrect. Genetic studies show that Ashkhenazic Jews also originated in the Middle East. Genetically, they cluster closely to both Mediterranean Sephardic Jews and to Persian Jews. If you are trying to grasp for the old "Askhenazic Jews are Khazar Turks" hypothesis proposed by Arthur Koestler, let me assure you that modern genetic studies clearly disprove this theory. Nice try, though.

By: Rum

Rum — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:21:31 +0000

"That last sentence implies that Jews have been "oppressing" people elsewhere - where?"

Where they have the upper hand, the jews have been oppressive. Most arab americans who have been targeted by the FBI have been first targetted by jewish groups such as ADL, ZOA, AIPAC. Creeps.

By: Rum

Rum — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:19:53 +0000

Dirk, I mean most jews supported the expulsion of non-jews and are opposed to the return of those expelled. that’s zionism.

By: Dirk

Dirk — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:06:40 +0000

the overwhelming majority of jews around the world support zionism. 

That depends what you mean by ‘Zionism.’ If you mean the majority of European and American Jews support the West Bank settler movement, then I don’t think that holds true.

If you mean, as I think you do, supporting Israel (in whatever borders) as a state, then there is no doubt at all that this is the case. It’s fair to say that in the modern world, 90% of Jews’ sense of Jewishness is bound up with the idea that Israel exists.

 50- On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses… 

The Bible and Torah say many things and a minority of Jews or Christians take it literally. I mean, the very same bible also includes instructions on sacrificing animals and keeping slaves. Good advice in 3000 BC, but maybe not so relevant now!

 You want to end
violence and promore muti-ethnic and multi-religious tolerance in
historic palestibe, Jews have to take a hard look at their religious
teachings which for hundreds of years have tought that jews have rights
that trumps others. Palestine is a case in point but not an exception, 

That last sentence implies that Jews have been "oppressing" people elsewhere - where?

Reading between the lines I think what you are saying is that the only possible solution is that the grandchildren of the 1948 refugees should be allowed to return to their grandparents’ homes?

Polls have shown, the majority of Israelis would be prepared for a two state solution. But a return of the 1948 refugees (or their descendants)? They would prefer to go back to being in a state of war with the Arab world before they accept this.

It will never happen. Which is why something like the Geneva Initiatve: http://www.geneva-accord.org is probably the only basis for an agreement

By: Dirk

Dirk — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:39:41 +0000

In a literal sense you are of course right, semitic = a language group in the Middle East.

But in practice the definition of the word has changed so that in every European-language dictionary or encyclopedia anti-semite = anti Jewish.

To quote from the Wikipedia entry: Semite refers broadly to speakers of a language group which includes both Arabs and Jews. However anti-Semitism is specifically in reference to Jews and many anti-Semites are pro-Arab. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_semite)

Which obviously does NOT mean that being being pro Palestinian or Anti Zionist results in you being anti-semitic (Jewish)!

Just that some far right groups take the very simple view that they will be for whoever is against the "Jews."

Which is why for example German neo Nazis demonstrated in support of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad whenever Iran played in the recent World Cup. In their minds he was "anti-Jewish", so are they, (to them) that meant they were on the same side.

By: Rum

Rum — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:43:16 +0000

But one small comment about jews vs. zionsits. in one survey after another, the overwhelming majority of jews around the world support zionism. I know we would like to think it’s not true but non-zionist jews are a tiny minority. Jewish religious techings and radical interpertations of the Old Testement continue to fule jewish extremism, which is protected from criticism in the West. Read the teachings of the Old Testement:

"50- On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, 51 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, 52 drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you. "

As you can see, Israel is the fullfullment of Jewish teachings. You want to end violence and promore muti-ethnic and multi-religious tolerance in historic palestibe, Jews have to take a hard look at their religious teachings which for hundreds of years have tought that jews have rights that trumps others. Palestine is a case in point but not an exception, where today millions of non-jews rott in suqlid refugee camps while jews (or even quarter jews) who never in their lives have set foot in palestine and nither did any of their ancestors are allowed to love in Israel and buy property and live in land where non-jews have been expelled from. And the West, for whatever reasons, closes an eye and even encourages such behaviour with full diplomatic ties, trade, and arms sales. I guess to the West, Israel is the Ulterego, the last reminder of bygone eare of colonialism.

By: Rum

Rum — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:32:38 +0000

You go girl…