Comments on: Atheist Marriages in Jordan http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/ Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:23:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Bill http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7074 Bill Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:39:55 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7074 Very interesting topic! I know in America, religion is an important topic but is not inscribed into society.  You don't have to be religious in order to get married in the US but I believe successful marriages are influenced by a spiritual connection.  Very interesting topic! I know in America, religion is an important topic but is not inscribed into society.  You don’t have to be religious in order to get married in the US but I believe successful marriages are influenced by a spiritual connection. 

]]> By: A.Rehman http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7072 A.Rehman Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:31:30 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7072 A link for those interested <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage</a></p> A link for those interested
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage</a></p>

]]> By: BJ http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7073 BJ Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:53:23 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7073 When the West became godless and wanted to be ruled by scientific facts a few hundred years ago they needed to find a word for all the stuff that could not be scientifically explained... mmm everything that is not fact... must be faith! and so the word religion was invented, and it means "everything you can't explain with science"... <br /><br />When the English turned up in India and the ME they could not understand much at all so they thought these people are very religious...<br /><br />You can't separate religion from culture guys!!! Its like separating Arabic from Arab culture... They are totally intertwined...<br /><br />The only place the word religion makes sense is when one is a true believer in science...(see above definition)<br /><br />Islam, Hinduism, Buddism... are more than just "religions", thats why there is so much problem having secularism forced on to them... Islam is deen wa dawleh<br /><br />A better word than religion is "worldview", it is how I see and understand the world. Islam, Christianity, Buddism are a worldview... so is Atheism by the way they are the only people that use the word religion properly because it comes out of their scientific worldview... <br /><br />So if Islam is a religion then you are using the word to mean worldview, and therefore Atheism is a religion too. If you are using it as an Atheist it means "unscientific" or just plain foolish... but then that just part of intolerant Atheist religious jargon..<br /><br />Cheers<br />BJ<br /> When the West became godless and wanted to be ruled by scientific facts a few hundred years ago they needed to find a word for all the stuff that could not be scientifically explained… mmm everything that is not fact… must be faith! and so the word religion was invented, and it means "everything you can’t explain with science"… <br /><br />When the English turned up in India and the ME they could not understand much at all so they thought these people are very religious…<br /><br />You can’t separate religion from culture guys!!! Its like separating Arabic from Arab culture… They are totally intertwined…<br /><br />The only place the word religion makes sense is when one is a true believer in science…(see above definition)<br /><br />Islam, Hinduism, Buddism… are more than just "religions", thats why there is so much problem having secularism forced on to them… Islam is deen wa dawleh<br /><br />A better word than religion is "worldview", it is how I see and understand the world. Islam, Christianity, Buddism are a worldview… so is Atheism by the way they are the only people that use the word religion properly because it comes out of their scientific worldview… <br /><br />So if Islam is a religion then you are using the word to mean worldview, and therefore Atheism is a religion too. If you are using it as an Atheist it means "unscientific" or just plain foolish… but then that just part of intolerant Atheist religious jargon..<br /><br />Cheers<br />BJ<br />

]]> By: Tololy http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7071 Tololy Mon, 04 Feb 2008 08:18:26 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7071 Ya Firas, I can't do khteefeh! People don't recognize me as Adiga because my father is Arab, twisted mentalities if you ask me. <br /><br />Thanks a lot for the information you provided, Maha. You haven't missed anything because I didn't mention anything. More on that later...<br /> Ya Firas, I can’t do khteefeh! People don’t recognize me as Adiga because my father is Arab, twisted mentalities if you ask me. <br /><br />Thanks a lot for the information you provided, Maha. You haven’t missed anything because I didn’t mention anything. More on that later…<br />

]]> By: Maha http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7070 Maha Mon, 04 Feb 2008 06:58:09 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7070 Normally Ma2thoons and priest are responsible for submitting religious marriage documents to "da2eret al a7wal al madaneyeh" within 30 days or they will be fined, for a marriage contract to be valid it needs 2 witnesses. One can go to a judge or a designated court official for exceptional marriage contracts. Having an undocumentated marriage, a "3orfy" civil marriage is punishable by law, even when a lawyer writes the marriage contract it is still not valid unless properly recorded.<br /><font size="4" face="Arabic Transparent">يشترط قانون الأحوال الشخصية الأردني لصحة عقد الزواج حضور شاهدين اثنين مسلمين رجلين أو رجل وامرأتين إذا كان الزوجان مسلمين عاقلين بالغين، وأن يسمع الشهود الإيجاب والقبول. وقد نصت المادة 17 من قانون الأحوال الشخصية على وجوب مراجعة الخاطب للقاضي أو نائبه لإجراء العقد، ويتم إجراء عقد الزواج من قبل مأذون شرعي بموجب وثيقة رسمية، وللقاضي بحكم وثيقته في حالات استثنائية أن يتولى إجراء العقد بإذن من قاضي القضاة. ونصت المادة على أنه إذا جرى عقد الزواج بدون وثيقة رسمية فيعاقب كل من العاقد والزوجين والشهود المنصوص عليها في قانون العقوبات الأردني، <br /><br /></font>The risk with acting married then trying to get any documents from the court to support your rights as a married couple after the fact, is that your case more likely than not will turn into a punishable case of adultry "Qadeyet Zinna". Play by the rules of the country you live in, our laws are not that strange i was amused to find that in Syria you are required to have permission from wazaret el dakheleyeh before marrying a non arabian foreigner probably cause of issues of national security :)<br /><br />Tangent ... If you are a non-believer why&nbsp;do you wear a hijab? or is it forced on you? or do you no longer wear it and i have missed something ?<br /><span lang="en" style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: &quot;Simplified Arabic&quot;; color: black;"></span> Normally Ma2thoons and priest are responsible for submitting religious marriage documents to "da2eret al a7wal al madaneyeh" within 30 days or they will be fined, for a marriage contract to be valid it needs 2 witnesses. One can go to a judge or a designated court official for exceptional marriage contracts. Having an undocumentated marriage, a "3orfy" civil marriage is punishable by law, even when a lawyer writes the marriage contract it is still not valid unless properly recorded.<br /><font size="4" face="Arabic Transparent">يشترط
قانون الأحوال الشخصية الأردني لصحة
عقد الزواج حضور شاهدين اثنين مسلمين
رجلين أو رجل وامرأتين إذا كان
الزوجان مسلمين عاقلين بالغين، وأن
يسمع الشهود الإيجاب والقبول. وقد نصت
المادة 17 من قانون الأحوال الشخصية
على وجوب مراجعة الخاطب للقاضي أو
نائبه لإجراء العقد، ويتم إجراء عقد
الزواج من قبل مأذون شرعي بموجب وثيقة
رسمية، وللقاضي بحكم وثيقته في حالات
استثنائية أن يتولى إجراء العقد بإذن
من قاضي القضاة. ونصت المادة على أنه
إذا جرى عقد الزواج بدون وثيقة رسمية
فيعاقب كل من العاقد والزوجين
والشهود المنصوص عليها في قانون
العقوبات الأردني، <br /><br /></font>The risk with acting married then trying to get any documents from the court to support your rights as a married couple after the fact, is that your case more likely than not will turn into a punishable case of adultry "Qadeyet Zinna". Play by the rules of the country you live in, our laws are not that strange i was amused to find that in Syria you are required to have permission from wazaret el dakheleyeh before marrying a non arabian foreigner probably cause of issues of national security :)<br /><br />Tangent … If you are a non-believer why&nbsp;do you wear a hijab? or is it forced on you? or do you no longer wear it and i have missed something ?<br /><span lang="en" style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: &quot;Simplified Arabic&quot;; color: black;"></span>

]]> By: sk8erboi http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7069 sk8erboi Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:47:52 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7069 My takes: Marriage was not founded by religion, religions basically regulated it. It is basically what ties a couple for life (supposedly), and the rules and the definition of it evolved with time and religion</li> <li>Cross beliefs marriages are always hard to work out, from any issue you might have with the parents, to how you perform your ceremony, to what governs the marriage when it comes to legal issues, to how the kids are raised. But as long the couple have an agreement on all aspects before tying the knot, then it should be fine.</li></ol> My takes:

Marriage was not founded by religion, religions basically regulated it. It is basically what ties a couple for life (supposedly), and the rules and the definition of it evolved with time and religion</li>
<li>Cross beliefs marriages are always hard to work out, from any issue you might have with the parents, to how you perform your ceremony, to what governs the marriage when it comes to legal issues, to how the kids are raised. But as long the couple have an agreement on all aspects before tying the knot, then it should be fine.</li></ol>

]]> By: Lina http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7068 Lina Sun, 03 Feb 2008 09:54:41 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7068 Batir, you're absolutely right about how tragic it is that Muslims and Christians can't get married easily. It is so unfair to not be able to be with someone you love because of, as you eloquently put it, the social terrorism in the name of religion. It feels like a mideval Shakepearean plot. What also kills me is that with most families that object, it has nothing to do with deep religious faith, but more of cultural and social traditions. Christian families find it offensive that the law allows Muslim men to marry Christian women but not vice versa, and as a religious minority, they feel they need to protect their identity or something... it drives me nuts when people start gossiping and bashing the girl who went off and married a Muslim against her families will... <br /><br />and...people should have the option of getting married with a simple civil contract, because there are so many issues connected to the marriage contract, and as Tololy said, even if you go with the religious contract to avoid complication, there would come a time when you find yourself having to deal with things you don't believe in to start with!!<br /> Batir, you’re absolutely right about how tragic it is that Muslims and Christians can’t get married easily. It is so unfair to not be able to be with someone you love because of, as you eloquently put it, the social terrorism in the name of religion. It feels like a mideval Shakepearean plot. What also kills me is that with most families that object, it has nothing to do with deep religious faith, but more of cultural and social traditions. Christian families find it offensive that the law allows Muslim men to marry Christian women but not vice versa, and as a religious minority, they feel they need to protect their identity or something… it drives me nuts when people start gossiping and bashing the girl who went off and married a Muslim against her families will… <br /><br />and…people should have the option of getting married with a simple civil contract, because there are so many issues connected to the marriage contract, and as Tololy said, even if you go with the religious contract to avoid complication, there would come a time when you find yourself having to deal with things you don’t believe in to start with!!<br />

]]> By: Firas http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7067 Firas Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:35:06 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7067 No you can't get that done in Jordan! This is to answer your question.<br />&lt;b&gt;How do atheists get married in Jordan?&lt;/b&gt;<br />Now, non belivers in Jordan have been always smart enough,that not to get into some usless arguments and bring some havoc over some "minor" issue!<br />You are of a Muslim background? This didn't stop them from reading the Fate7a at a funreal, or getting them married by a Sheikh! They have been doing this for years and years. Or from having people of Christian background puttining a Christmas Tree or running for the Christian seat in the elections.<br /><br />This whole notion that as a young person you have to FIGHT THE SYSTEM and question everything, rebel on your backward society and its crazy intolerant people ,avoid religious people , follow your dreams and heart, give teenagers free condoms and morning-after pills, make explicit sexual education mandatory to end the Garbage-babies,is with due respect,&nbsp; is a waste of time and people in Jordan will view you as another person who can not face reality and keeps spewing the old liberal vomit! <br /><br />There are thousands of issues you could boil your blood over in Jordan and waste your energy on. <br /><br />How you view marriage is a personal issue! And I respect people for the choices they make! Whither they get a religious marriage just because it's the social norm, but they don't believe in it, or wear Hijab or fight over removing the religion field from the ID card, I would still respect them as humans, would keep my opnion to myself or share it with them if they ask, but would never hurt or insult them. It is just their choice, and would not waste my time thinking about their issues.&nbsp; <br /><br />What I really wanted to say, if you are an athiest Jordanian couple who really love each others and feel they are ready,&nbsp; you have these options:<br /><br />1. Make a big scene out of this, go to international media, demonstrations, family feudes, fights with the school adminstration, living with the false impression that you have a goal in life <br />or<br />2. Just take it like all other athiest Jordanians, and start working on estbalishing a liberal-non religious party that in 50 years will sweep the elections and we'll become the new- old Turkery (considering the fact that they are turning religious)<br />or<br />3. Accept your reailty and live happily in your society accepting all its defects (from your prespective) and respecting its people's choices even if they didn't make sense to you, simply enjoying life and being in peace with your self!<br />Look it is your problem! Deal with it :D<br /><br />Tololy, Adigas have the coolest marriage option! Go with Khteefeh, a guy would just ride his motorcycle,grab her from her parents house ,and run for it while her dad is shooting at you.....this is so romantic.<br /><br /> No you can’t get that done in Jordan! This is to answer your question.<br />&lt;b&gt;How do atheists get married in Jordan?&lt;/b&gt;<br />Now, non belivers in Jordan have been always smart enough,that not to get into some usless arguments and bring some havoc over some "minor" issue!<br />You are of a Muslim background? This didn’t stop them from reading the Fate7a at a funreal, or getting them married by a Sheikh! They have been doing this for years and years. Or from having people of Christian background puttining a Christmas Tree or running for the Christian seat in the elections.<br /><br />This whole notion that as a young person you have to FIGHT THE SYSTEM and question everything, rebel on your backward society and its crazy intolerant people ,avoid religious people , follow your dreams and heart, give teenagers free condoms and morning-after pills, make explicit sexual education mandatory to end the Garbage-babies,is with due respect,&nbsp; is a waste of time and people in Jordan will view you as another person who can not face reality and keeps spewing the old liberal vomit! <br /><br />There are thousands of issues you could boil your blood over in Jordan and waste your energy on. <br /><br />How you view marriage is a personal issue! And I respect people for the choices they make! Whither they get a religious marriage just because it’s the social norm, but they don’t believe in it, or wear Hijab or fight over removing the religion field from the ID card, I would still respect them as humans, would keep my opnion to myself or share it with them if they ask, but would never hurt or insult them. It is just their choice, and would not waste my time thinking about their issues.&nbsp; <br /><br />What I really wanted to say, if you are an athiest Jordanian couple who really love each others and feel they are ready,&nbsp; you have these options:<br /><br />1. Make a big scene out of this, go to international media, demonstrations, family feudes, fights with the school adminstration, living with the false impression that you have a goal in life <br />or<br />2. Just take it like all other athiest Jordanians, and start working on estbalishing a liberal-non religious party that in 50 years will sweep the elections and we’ll become the new- old Turkery (considering the fact that they are turning religious)<br />or<br />3. Accept your reailty and live happily in your society accepting all its defects (from your prespective) and respecting its people’s choices even if they didn’t make sense to you, simply enjoying life and being in peace with your self!<br />Look it is your problem! Deal with it :D<br /><br />Tololy, Adigas have the coolest marriage option! Go with Khteefeh, a guy would just ride his motorcycle,grab her from her parents house ,and run for it while her dad is shooting at you…..this is so romantic.<br /><br />

]]> By: Devil's Mind http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7066 Devil's Mind Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:09:26 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7066 Well, one thing u miss out here... Many atheists marry partners with beliefs... In such cases, it is common for the atheist to conform to the traditions of their partner. You know, it can be that ceremonial marriage might mean nothing for one side, but mean something to the other side. Well, one thing u miss out here… Many atheists marry partners with beliefs… In such cases, it is common for the atheist to conform to the traditions of their partner. You know, it can be that ceremonial marriage might mean nothing for one side, but mean something to the other side.

]]> By: Batir Wardam http://tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7065 Batir Wardam Sat, 02 Feb 2008 22:12:59 +0000 http://www.tololy.com/2008/02/02/atheist-marriages-in-jordan/#comment-7065 <p>Marriage was designed by the human race long before the so-calleed divine religions were introduced to the society. In fact, morals and ethics were long developed before religion but our totalitarian religious culture has managed to erase any memories of anything before religion. </p> <p>My problem is not athiest marriage. They can be athiests in practice and yet do that religious charade, but the real issue is the forbidden love between muslims and Christians. Lots of heartbreaking tales have been destroyed because of religious differences. I do not see any Arab country, with this religious social terrorism hanging on everyone's head moving to civil marriage systems. maybe Tunisia has done brilliantly in terms of secularism but still their marriage rituals are religious, and still use that word which I am sorry to say that I really dislike which is nikah!</p> <p>Did I just sign my takfeer document? </p> <p></p> <p>Marriage was designed by the human race long before the so-calleed divine religions were introduced to the society. In fact, morals and ethics were long developed before religion but our totalitarian religious culture has managed to erase any memories of anything before religion. </p>
<p>My problem is not athiest marriage. They can be athiests in practice and yet do that religious charade, but the real issue is the forbidden love between muslims and Christians. Lots of heartbreaking tales have been destroyed because of religious differences. I do not see any Arab country, with this religious social terrorism hanging on everyone’s head moving to civil marriage systems. maybe Tunisia has done brilliantly in terms of secularism but still their marriage rituals are religious, and still use that word which I am sorry to say that I really dislike which is nikah!</p>
<p>Did I just sign my takfeer document? </p>
<p></p>

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