Comments on: A Secular, Anti-Hijab Turkey?

By: Tololy’s Box » Blog Archive » Misspeaking, Misrepresenting, Misleading

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:28:50 +0000

[...] attempt to sue the not-sufficiently-secular government that has unbanned it in public universities. I wrote about this before, arguing that no government has the right to dictate citizens’ fashions, and I was jubilant [...]

By: Abdullah

Abdullah — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:52:40 +0000

Craig, those compounds are for these peoples’ sake, and trust me they do prefer living in it than living in any regular neighborhood, I even prefer living there myself.

Am not here to judge this is right or wrong but yet there is no forbidding for their religious practice and this is the essence of this post.

By: tommy

tommy — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:36:51 +0000

Turkey has one of
the worst human-rights records ever - this is not liberation, yet
extreme oppression and forcing the people to believe what most believe.
So it’s an extreme and extreme is wrong.

Its human rights record is mostly blighted by the persecution of Kurds, Armenians, and others. These are the kind of people Arab states (like the Baathists under Saddam) have never had a problem persecuting either. While not perfect, Turkey’s government is more democratic than most Arab regimes.

By: tommy

tommy — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:26:50 +0000

But for KSA it’s not forbidding any religious practice for non-Muslims (as
far as I know), and there are many compounds for them where they can go
to church, dress however they like and act as their normal way.

Actually, churches are prohibited in KSA, Abdullah. There isn’t a single church in all of Saudi Arabia. That is well known. And most certainly Saudi citizens are not free to choose their own religion. Even bringing Bibles into the country can be very problematic.

By: Vincent

Vincent — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:36:00 +0000

I tend to agree with you, Tololy.

The Turkish government is in the wrong on this one, but as other recent events prove, the Turkish government has a rather slippery grasp on the idea of freedom on expression in any case.

By: Craig

Craig — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:25:26 +0000

Abdullah,

and there are many compounds for them where they can go to church, dress however they like and act as their normal way."

Is that a joke? What would you say if Germany had a similar system?

By: omar

omar — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:06:39 +0000

Turkey has one of the worst human-rights records ever - this is not liberation, yet extreme oppression and forcing the people to believe what most believe. So it’s an extreme and extreme is wrong.

Live and let live, I have many Turkish friends they’re great but they tend to be quite ignorant when it comes down to them identifying themselves as Muslims as they personally have very ‘interesting’ believes. Yet I personally don’t let that come between us, but I still feel sorry for them as they idolised Ataturk and they don’t quite see the damage he caused to a whole culture and religion.

Being modern after all does not happen when you completely discard your old culture, yet it comes when you acknowledge it and preserve it. That’s just my opinion.

By: Abdullah

Abdullah — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:16:35 +0000

I agree with “Secratea”, previously I mentioned that “‘Hijab’ is the symbol of Islamic women” ok that was inappropriate expression, as “Secratea” mentioned it is a religious obligation, which means it is a religious practice. But for KSA it’s not forbidding any religious practice for non-Muslims (as far as I know), and there are many compounds for them where they can go to church, dress however they like and act as their normal way.

And yes forbidding a religious practice is a quite different than forbidding a religious symbol.

By: Tololy

Tololy — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:03:51 +0000

Tommy, if by ‘moderate Muslims’ you were referring to me, your reference was an error. I will write about women in Saudi Arabia and other ultra-religious societies. It’s only a matter of time and will.

By: tommy

tommy — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:57:50 +0000

If I were in Turkey, I would not have marched with them. For a country
to be truly respectful of human rights, and to be secular, it must not
interfere with the religious practices of its people. Granted, the laws
governing their lives should not stem from any particular religion or
enforce religious doctrine, but to prevent someone from wearing a veil
to school? To destroy a person’s educational prospects just because she
chooses, or is forced to, cover her hair? That is the epitome of
discrimination.

OK, but why are moderate Muslims always more agitated at the enforced secularism of Turkey than at the enforced religiosity of, say, Saudi Arabia?